The Rise and Fall of David Irving

The Rise and Fall of David Irving is a stark reminder that challenging the historical narrative can have serious consequences.

The Rise
David Irving’s success as a British historian of the Second World War stems from his conversations with German survivors and his ability to read German wartime documents – including diaries.

After serving in 1959 as editor of the University of London Carnival Committee’s journal, Irving left for West Germany, where he worked as a steelworker in a Thyssen AG steel works in the Ruhr area and learned the German language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

His success began with the publication of The Destruction of Dresden in 1963.

The Destruction of Dresden is a 1963 book by David Irving, in which the author describes the February 1945 Allied bombing of Dresden in World War II.

The book became an international best-seller during the 1960s debate about the morality of the World War II area bombing of the civilian population of Nazi Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Destruction_of_Dresden

Focal Point offers free downloads of Mr Irving’s main books.
Browse, and then buy!
THESE downloadable files of David Irving’s works are all Copyright.
They are free for you to read only.
They are not free for you to upload elsewhere.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/index.html

Apocalypse 1945: The Destruction of Dresden

The Times, London, Friday, April 13, 2007:
“A well researched and dispassionate account”

WE HAVE uploaded two versions of this book.

The original setting for the 1995 reprint; and the latest (2005) edition which is revised, corrected, has maps, and is in a friendlier typeface.

Both are PDF files and can be read by Acrobat Reader
http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Dresden/index.html

His reputation was enhanced by the publication of Hitler’s War in 1977.

Hitler’s War and the War Path – David Irving – 1991 Edition

Using information gleaned from German military records and archives, as well as from the unpublished diaries, notes and correspondence of the Reich’s top ministers, noted historian David Irving explores the strategies, objectives and execution of Hitler’s War from the breathtaking and often surprising perspective of Adolf Hitler himself.

This shocking, controversial best seller stunned the European continent with its startling revelations about Germany’s ultimate dictator.

It is unique among biographies in its method of describing an event–WWII as through the eyes of one of the dictators himself.

“What Hitler did not order, or did not learn, does not figure in this book,” explains the author. “The narrative of events unfolds in the precise sequence that Hitler himself became involved in them.”

For instance, the first that the reader knows of a plot against Hitler’s life is when Count von Stauffenberg’s bomb explodes beneath the table at the Fuehrer’s headquarters.

It is an unusual technique, but it works.

The book sold 25,000 copies in its first UK hardback edition, and it was often reprinted (Macmillan, Ltd.) and translated.

It became an approved reference work at West Point and Sandhurst, and it figures prominently in university libraries around the world, because it quotes documents that other historians have failed to find.

In 1991 Focal Point, an imprint founded in 1980, published a new Deluxe edition, updated and including The War Path, the narrative of Hitler’s prewar years.

The 1991 Focal Point edition incorporated all the latest archival finds, including the diaries of Hermann Goering and Hitler’s notorious doctor Morell, and for the first time dramatic color photographs taken by Hitler’s cameraman Walter Frentz.

This new edition is further updated with evidence including the long-lost Gestapo interrogations of Rudolf Hess’s staff, now in private hands, and signals intercepted by British codebreakers.

Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1872197108
Amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1872197108

A new, fully-updated Millennium Edition (2001)
http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Hitler/2001/HW1.pdf

And his fame spread far and wide in 1983 when he denounced the Hitler Diaries as a hoax.

Hitler Diaries
In 1983, Stern, a weekly German news magazine, purchased the Hitler Diaries of 61 volumes for DM 9 million and published excerpts from them.

Irving played the main role in exposing the Hitler Diaries as a hoax.

In October 1982, Irving purchased, from the same source as Stern’s 1983 purchase, 800 pages of documents relating to Hitler, only to conclude that many of the documents were forgeries.

Irving was amongst the first to identify the diaries as forgeries, and to draw media attention.

He went so far as to crash the press conference held by Hugh Trevor-Roper at the Hamburg offices of Stern magazine on 25 April 1983 to denounce the diaries as a forgery and Trevor-Roper for endorsing the diaries as genuine.

Irving’s performance at the Stern press conference where he violently harangued Trevor-Roper until ejected by security led him to be featured prominently on the news: the next day, Irving appeared on the Today television show as a featured guest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Hitler_Diaries

The Fall
Arguably, the trajectory of David Irving’s career changed in 1987 when his “shockingly unfamiliar portrait” of Winston Churchill was published.

Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0380763141

Churchill’s War Vol 1: Struggle For Power – pdf download page
http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Churchill/1/index.html

Churchill’s War Vol 2: Triumph In Adversity – pdf download page
http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Churchill/2/index.html

In 2018, Afua Hirsch wrote in The Guardian,

“There’s a strange cognitive dissonance you experience working on the inconvenient parts of Churchill’s legacy – as I have been recently for a documentary I’m making.
Two serious historians have told me in recent weeks that when they began researching less popular episodes in Churchill’s life, they were warned that doing so would either finish their careers, preclude them from promotion, or make them outcasts in academia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_churchill#Reputation_and_legacy

Either way:

By the start of the 1990s the tide of events had turned against David Irving.

Hitler’s War and the War Path – David Irving – 1991 Edition

In 1991 Focal Point, an imprint founded in 1980, published a new Deluxe edition, updated and including The War Path, the narrative of Hitler’s prewar years.

Mr. Irving’s other publications had by then come under a systematic campaign of attack.

In July 1992, on the day after he returned from Moscow bringing the unpublished Goebbels diaries from the former Soviet archives, Macmillan’s capitulated and secretly ordered all stocks of his books burned.

Libraries came under pressure to pull his books from their shelves. Italian, French, Spanish and Scandinavian publishers were prevailed upon not to release their editions of the book.

Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1872197108

http://www.fpp.co.uk/books/Dresden/index.html

Over the years, Irving’s stance on the Holocaust changed significantly.

From 1988, he started to espouse Holocaust denial openly: he had previously not denied the Holocaust outright and for this reason, many Holocaust deniers were ambivalent about him.

In January 1988, Irving travelled to Toronto, Ontario, to assist Douglas Christie, the defence lawyer for Ernst Zündel at his second trial for denying the Holocaust.

In the 1988 Zündel trial, Irving repeated and defended his claim from Hitler’s War that until October 1943 Hitler knew nothing about the actual implementation of the Final Solution.

As to what evidence further led Irving to believe that the Holocaust never occurred, he cited The Leuchter report by Fred A. Leuchter, which claimed there was no evidence for the existence of homicidal gas chambers at the Auschwitz concentration camp.

Irving said in a 1999 documentary about Leuchter:

“The big point [of the Leuchter report]: there is no significant residue of cyanide in the brickwork.

That’s what converted me.

When I read that in the report in the courtroom in Toronto, I became a hard-core disbeliever“.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Holocaust_denial

Irving has expressed racist and antisemitic sentiments, both publicly and privately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Racism_and_antisemitism

David Irving became persona non grata in some parts of the world.

Persona non grata
After Irving denied the Holocaust in two 1989 speeches given in Austria, the Austrian government issued an arrest warrant for him and barred him from entering the country.

In early 1992, a German court found him guilty of Holocaust denial under the Auschwitzlüge section of the law against Volksverhetzung (a failed appeal by Irving would see the fine rise from 10,000 DM to 30,000 DM), and he was subsequently barred from entering Germany.

Other governments followed suit, including Italy and Canada, where he was arrested in November 1992 and deported to the United Kingdom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Persona_non_grata

Early in September 2004, Michael Cullen, the Deputy Prime Minister of New Zealand, announced that Irving would not be permitted to visit the country, where he had been invited by the National Press Club to give a series of lectures under the heading “The Problems of Writing about World War II in a Free Society”.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Life_after_libel_suit

And his fate was sealed in 1996 when he lost a libel case that led to his bankruptcy in 2002.

On 5 September 1996, Irving filed a libel suit against Deborah Lipstadt and her British publisher Penguin Books for publishing the British edition of Lipstadt’s book, Denying the Holocaust, which had first been published in the United States in 1993.

In the book, Lipstadt called Irving a Holocaust denier, falsifier, and bigot, and said that he manipulated and distorted real documents.

Not only did Irving lose the case, but in light of the evidence presented at the trial a number of his works that had previously escaped serious scrutiny were brought to public attention.

He was also ordered to pay all of Penguin’s trial costs, estimated to be as much as £2 million (US$3.2 million) though it is uncertain how much of these costs he will ultimately pay.

When he did not meet these, Davenport Lyons moved to make him bankrupt on behalf of their client.

He was declared bankrupt in 2002, and lost his home, though he has been able to travel around the world despite his financial problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Libel_suit

Several of these statements were cited by the judge’s decision in Irving’s lawsuit against Penguin Books and Deborah Lipstadt, leading the judge to conclude that Irving “had on many occasions spoken in terms which are plainly racist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Racism_and_antisemitism

The coup de grace was delivered in 2005 when an Austrian court sentenced him to three years for “denying the Holocaust”.

On 11 November 2005, the Austrian police in the southern state of Styria, acting under the 1989 warrant, arrested Irving.

Irving pleaded guilty to the charge of “trivialising, grossly playing down and denying the Holocaust“.

Irving was sentenced to three years’ imprisonment in accordance with the law prohibiting National Socialist activities (officially Verbotsgesetz, “Prohibition Statute”).

In December 2006, Irving was released from prison, and banned from ever returning to Austria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Life_after_libel_suit

Assessing The Damage
David Irving has been seriously abused [in many ways] and outcast as a “Holocaust denial” heretic.

David John Cawdell Irving (born 24 March 1938) is an English author and Holocaust denier who has written on the military and political history of World War II, with a focus on Nazi Germany.

He soon became the main proponent of Holocaust denial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

His works are now said to be “unduly favourable to the German side” and/or no longer “authoritative or reliable”.

Irving, once held in regard for his expert knowledge of German military archives, was a controversial figure from the start.

His interpretations of the war were widely regarded as unduly favourable to the German side.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Reception_by_historians

The book is no longer considered to be an authoritative or reliable account of the Allied bombing and destruction of Dresden during February 1945.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Destruction_of_Dresden

Some commentators have problems acknowledging David Irving is a historian.

Reception by historians

The description of Irving as a historian, rather than a historical author, is controversial, with some publications since the libel trial continuing to refer to him as a “historian” or “disgraced historian“, while others insist he is not a historian, and have adopted alternatives such as “author” or “historic writer“.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Reception_by_historians

Some say a historian’s reputation is determined by their work being “evidence” based.

E. J. Hobsbawm was interviewed by D. D. Guttenplan, the author of The Holocaust on Trial: History, Justice and the David Irving Libel Case.

The illustrious Marxist historian noted that “most historians” have political viewpoints, and that Mr. Irving’s politics are irrelevant since historians should be judged “whether they produce work based on evidence.”
(New York Times, June 26, 1999)

Should Respectable Historians Attend and Speak at Conferences Hosted by David Irving? – History News Network – Peter N. Kirstein
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7259

Others are concerned about free speech and a free press.

Hence an unexamined biography of Dr. Joseph Goebbels, a major historical figure of the twentieth century that contained the first utilization of Goebbels’s Moscow-archived diaries, was suppressed due to rage over the reputation of its author and not the content of the work.

While the censoring of any book, even if content based, raises significant questions of free speech and the public’s legitimate access to information, banning the dissemination of a historical work, for reasons other than content, should prove troubling for historians as un-American and a threat to the enterprise of historical scholarship.

Should Respectable Historians Attend and Speak at Conferences Hosted by David Irving? – History News Network – Peter N. Kirstein
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7259

And some suggest David Irving’s reputation as an authoritative and reliable historian may “eventually” be restored.

I’m very pleased to announce that our selection of HTML Books now contains works by renowned World War II historian David Irving, including his magisterial Hitler’s War, named by famed military historian Sir John Keegan as one of the most crucial volumes for properly understanding that conflict.

With many millions of his books in print, including a string of best-sellers translated into numerous languages, it’s quite possible that the eighty-year-old Irving today ranks as the most internationally-successful British historian of the last one hundred years.

Although I myself have merely read a couple of his shorter works, I found these absolutely outstanding, with Irving regularly deploying his remarkable command of the primary source documentary evidence to totally demolish my naive History 101 understanding of major historical events.

It would hardly surprise me if the huge corpus of his writings eventually constitutes a central pillar upon which future historians seek to comprehend the catastrophically bloody middle years of our hugely destructive twentieth century even after most of our other chroniclers of that era are long forgotten.

Carefully reading a thousand-page reconstruction of the German side of the Second World War is obviously a daunting undertaking, and his remaining thirty-odd books would probably add at least another 10,000 pages to that Herculean task.

But fortunately, Irving is also a riveting speaker, and several of his extended lectures of recent decades are conveniently available on YouTube, as given below.

These effectively present many of his most remarkable revelations concerning the wartime policies of both Winston Churchill and Adolf Hitler, as well as sometimes recounting the challenging personal situation he himself faced.

Watching these lectures may consume several hours, but that is still a trivial investment compared to the many weeks it would take to digest the underlying books themselves.

The Remarkable Historiography of David Irving
Unz Review – Ron Unz – 4 June 2018

http://www.unz.com/announcement/the-remarkable-historiography-of-david-irving/

As always:

Independent observers should review the evidence and draw their own conclusions.

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22 Responses to The Rise and Fall of David Irving

  1. John Miller says:

    The ‘Holocaust’ and World War II are not History today. They are the Religion that has replaced Christianity as the State Religion of the Western World. \

    To question any aspect of them/it is not equivalent to questioning the reality of Charlemagne. It is questioning their One True Faith.

    1a) Christ died for the sins of mankind

    1b) Six Million Jews died for the sins of mankind

    2a) Golgotha

    2b) Auschwitz

    3a) Christian Pilgrims make pilgrimage to the Holy Land

    3b) Holocaust Pilgrims make pilgrimage to the ‘death camps’.

    4a) Prophets like Isaiah foretold the coming of Christ

    4b) Prophets like the New York Times foretold the “Six Million Jews” story.

    5a) All people born after Adam and Eve, carry “Original Sin”, because of the Sin of Adam and Eve(eating the fruit)

    5b) All people born after 1945(except Jews) carry “Original Sin”, because of the Crime of their ancestors(nor stopping the Holocaust).

    6a) Satan, King of Darkness

    6b) Adolf Hitler, the “most evil man who ever lived”.

    7a) Satan’s Demons

    7b) Adolf Hitler’s “Nazis”

    8a) Satan’s witches

    8b) Modern-day “Neo-Nazis” and “Holocaust deniers”

    9a) The Hounds of Hell

    9b) Barry the Nazi Dog.

    10a) Witch Trials like at Salem. The accused are already declared guilty before the show trial and can not defend themselves

    10b) “Holocaust” Trials like at Nuremberg. The accused are already declared guilty before the show trial and can not defend themselves.

    11a) Lawyers who defended the accused “witches” at Witch Trials were often punished themselves, for no ‘crime’ other than trying to defend their client

    11b) Lawyers who defend the accused ‘Holocaust deniers’ at Holocaust Denial trials
    are often punished themselves, for no ‘crime’ other than trying to defend their client(eg. Sylvia Stolz)

    12a) Index Librorum Prohibitorum

    12b) Modern-day “Holocaust Denial” books are banned, such as by Amazon

    13a) The Witchfinder General, Matthew Hopkins

    13b) Nazi Hunter Simon Wiesenthal

    14a) The Pope

    14b) Eli Wiesel

    15a) “Historians” like Scaliger write ‘History’ books that are entirely Christian-based, and ignore the Laws of Science

    15b) “Historians” like Hilberg write “History” books that are entirely-Holocaust-based, and the ignore the Laws of Science.

    16a) The Holy Bible, the writings of the Church Fathers

    16b) The Diary of Anne Frank, Night etc.

    17a) The Bible was compulsory in all schools

    17b) Holocaust studies ARE compulsory in all schools

    18a) Strange tales about witches, demons and talking cats are taken as “fact”.

    18b) Strange tales about ‘gas chambers’, ‘fire pits’ and ‘human soap’ are taken as “fact”.

    19a) The Holy Church Fathers

    19b) Rudolf Vrba, Mel Mermelstein etc.

    20a) The Holy Marytyrs

    20b) The Six Million(again)

    21a) Holy Relics, pieces of the Cross etc.

    21b) Human soap, Human Lampshades etc.

    22a) Questioning the Bible was the worst crime that anyone could commit

    22b) Questioning the Holocaust IS the worst crime that anyone can commit

    23a) The Bible frequently contradicts itself, but True Believers don’t notice.

    23b) The Official Holocaust Narrative frequently contradicts itself, but True Believers don’t notice.

    24a) Men Like Giordano Bruno were punished by the Church as “heretics” But in the end , the Truth won, although many still believe the Biblical story today.

    24b) Men like Germar Rudolf are punished by the Holocaust Institution as “heretics”. Some nutcases will always still believe the Holocaust tales. Let us hope that like Bruno’s Truths, the Truths about the “Holocaust” will win out in in the end.

    One unfortunate thing is the way people today shy away from questioning THIS part of so-called “History”. But the actual documentation is there. And excellent book about the start of World War II was written by Udo Walendy. While books about the ‘Holocaust’ by experts like Carlo Mattogno, Germar Rudolf, Jurgen Graf etc., using actual documentation, show the Truth.

    But, if people can so control the minds of the world over a false version of ‘History’ that happened less than 80 years ago, what chance is there for people when it comes to the History of 800 years ago?

  2. malagabay says:

    https://archive.org/details/TruthForGermany

    Amazon US: https://www.amazon.com/dp/3922252117
    Amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/3922252117

    Udo Walendy, born 21 January 1927, in Berlin, is a German author, historian, former soldier, and Holocaust denier, who, like Gerd Schultze-Rhonhof, also disputes Germany’s guilt for the Second World War.

    As early as 1964 he published his own book, Wahrheit für Deutschland – Die Schuldfrage des Zweiten Weltkriegs (Truth for Germany – The Question of Guilt for the Second World War), which in 1979 was listed by Germany’s Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons as material that could not be publicly advertised or given to young readers, due to the version it presented of the events that led to World War II.

    This restriction was lifted in 1994, after a long legal battle, on the grounds that Walendy’s constitutional rights had been violated, since the federal constitutional court ruled that even a supposedly biased representation could be defended as an academic work.

    A renewed attempt to have the work listed was abandoned in 2001 due to a negative assessment of the chances of success in the event of another court case.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Udo_Walendy

  3. Thorsten says:

    Really a pity that this site is taking this direction. I actually never questioned the fact that there has happened this atrocity we call Holocaust and I don’t see any hint of an argument to do so. Now having this discussion here will definitivly harm the critical review of the given mainstream chronology, it will be contaminated, even for me as a long time Reader of this blog. Very disappointing. What a waste.

    • melitamegalithic says:

      Do note the caveat at the bottom of the page: “Independent observers should review the evidence and draw their own conclusions.”. Note particularly the first two words “Independent observers”. Those are the once who can -or might – see the logic or lack of it in an argument. Most cannot be bothered to and prefer the comfort of the middle of the herd. Let them all sing joyfully; life is short.
      There are truths and there are deceptions, and there is a whole ocean in between full of confusion. To some however, often labelled as of ‘Analytic’ (and the first four letters can convey a diabolical side to those who deal in deception), are rarely satisfied with dogma, from whatever source, especially when the words and the facts don’t quite tally.
      Not my subject this thread, but too many years and long in the tooth, I have come across factual matters that just don’t tally; in science, astronomy, archaeology and unintendedly in the above matters.
      Still, enjoy the this time of year while it lasts.
      With best wishes, its the only way we could all survive.

    • John Miller says:

      “This direction”? “Contaminated”? I take it you believe that there is an enormous difference between questioning the Official Version of ONE version of History and another ONLY if one of those Official Versions questioned is the ‘Holocaust’?

      And that’s what my first post was about. For the poster, Thorsten, and many others, it would be perfectly acceptable for someone to question whether or not it is true that Augustus Caesar lived “2000 years ago”. It would be perfectly acceptable for someone to question the authenticity of the ‘Paleolithic Cave Art’, depicting hunting scenes. It would be perfectly acceptable for someone to question the reality of the Moon Landing.

      But question the Holocaust?! That is totally unacceptable, and quite likely “vile”. So, the question becomes..WHY is that? Why does trying to objectively investigate this ONE aspect of History result in such a reaction from so very many? And the answer is because..People have been indoctrinated from birth to have that reaction. As I already stated, it has become the Religion of the West.

      While questioning the age of Egyptian monuments can result in someone losing their job, and critically damaging their career prospects, it is not a crime.

      The ONLY “Historical” event that it is actually a CRIME to quetsion any aspect of is the ‘Holocaust’.

      https://katana17.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/fred-leuchter-25-map-of-ountries-with-holo-denial-laws.jpg?w=771&h=837

      But even this is misleading. People have been convicted of what is “Holocaust Denial” in everything but name, in other countries, such as the UK and Canada.

      The Truth should not have to hide behind “Denial” Laws. And the way to destroy “Holocaust Denial” should be to confront it head-on, and obliterate it with evidence and indisputable proof. Yet this is NOT the method taken by Defenders of the Orthodoxy. Rather, they refuse any sort of debate, discussion or even argument. This makes no sense unless the fact is that they have no evidence. All they have are their Laws making freedom of thought and freedom of speech illegal.

      For those who wish to make their own minds up, a great place to begin is here..

      http://holocausthandbooks.com/

      There are free videos to watch, free brochures, and many books available as free online content. And other books listed that can be purchased online. (But NOT from certain online booksellers like Amazon, who pretend that these books don’t even exist.)

      “Enlightenment is man’s leaving his self-caused immaturity. Immaturity is the incapacity to use one’s intelligence without the guidance of another. Such immaturity is self-caused, if it is not caused by lack of intelligence, but by lack of determination and courage to use one’s intelligence without being guided by another. Sapere Aude! [dare to know] Have the courage to use your own intelligence! is therefore the motto of the enlightenment.”

      That is the famous German philosopher Immanuel Kant speaking in 1784.

    • Martin Sieff says:

      Excellently put and I fully agree Thorsten.

      But Malaga Bay and Mr. Cullen have done invaluable work – may their recover and continue!

  4. Dick says:

    Well, that’s the end for Malagaybay: those whom the gods wish to destroy… logically, you were always heading for holocaust denial. Yes. The Ultima Thule of historical revision for mentally ill neurotics. Many years ago, I met a holocaust survivor. His job in Auschwitz was to pull the corpses out of the gas chambers by their ears and load them onto the carts. Another guy went crazy; he picked up the body of a dead woman and started to dance with it. I guess he was making it all up, right? To borrow a line from ELO: So sad, if that’s the way it’s over.

    • Martin Sieff says:

      Yes. I had a girl friend when I was a young student at Oxford whose mother was an Auschwitz survivor and I have met many more. I personally knew the great Ewald-Heinrich von Kleist-Schmenzin, the great German dissident who was sent to Ravensbrick concentration camp for conspiring against Hitler. He saw the reality of the horrors with his eyes all right

  5. Dick says:

    You should not have deleted my message, you worthless coward. You have dropped your mask.

  6. Johan B says:

    Me think Miles Mathis paper on David Irving should be mentioned and contemplated by independent observers: http://mileswmathis.com/irving.pdf
    It gives a somewhat different picture than this posting, implying the whole phenomenon to be scripted and staged.
    Although, there seem to be few or no real evidence of a con there still is a pile of smoking red flags to digest.
    The peak for this project should be DI´s going to Austria and getting a sentence despite being wanted there. All in order to scare anyone from wording questions about the holocaust.
    Then again, DI´s number on the holocaust is according to mainstreams, the discrepancy is his concern over the true number of gas chamber victims.
    He spend some very unlikely time in jail for that.

    • Martin Sieff says:

      Irving’s lies and distortions have been a matter of public record for well over 40 years. He is simply a dishonest and lousy historian. This not just true on Hitler. Volumes I and II of Nigel Hamilton’s biography of Field Marshal Montgomery contain repeated examples of Irving either deliberately or simply through incompetence and bias distorting combat details of the Desert Campaign and getting them embarrassingly wrong.

  7. Gunnar Heinsohn says:

    I withdraw all my postings from Malagabay,
    Gunnar Heinsohn 27 December 2018,

    • Martin Sieff says:

      But why? Because people disagree with you?

      Because some of a us have asked questions that you cannot answer?

  8. Martin Sieff says:

    My apologies Gunnar. I wrote the above without connecting it to the entire shameful – and ridiculous – Holocaust denial obsession and the ludicrous attempt make Irving look like a figure of honesty, honor and competence.

    For all our disagreements on the revisions of history – which I have no doubt will continue – this issue is clear.

    Open debate at the very minimum means that lies, absurdities and Jew-hating filth must be exposed for what it is by all honorable people. I maintain this opposition against all Muslim-haters and Christian-haters as well.

    I have admired and supported your catastrophist efforts Mr. Cullen.

    Now please learn the basics of decency and sanity.

  9. tiami says:

    both world wars were just preperation for the world of today. the end of old Europe. zio-nazi hoax.

  10. John Miller says:

    To all here.

    Malagabay merely showed how someone can be feted as a genius if they tow the Official Narrative, and then condemned and imprisoned if they step outside the lines.

    The only one who mentioned the absurd anomalies in the Official Holocaust Narrative is me. And I will not pretend to believe in what is physically and scientifically impossible just because others either pretend to, or actually do.

    if Malagabay wishes to ignore this issue from now on, and continue with chronological problems, then i will fully understand and accept that. After all, that is what this website was always all about.

    But I will say, the following..

    1) I genuinely question whether ‘Thorsten’, ‘Martin Sieff’, and ‘Dick’ actually believe what they posted, or whether they felt the need to post it.

    2) I am deeply disappointed with the reaction by Professor Gunnar Heinsohn, a man I had tremendous respect and admiration for..until now.. But now I see another side of Gunnar Heinsohn, a man who turns himself away from historical investigations when the issue is too :”hot” or “controversial”.

    The Truth is the Truth, regardless of the political or social pressures of the time. The Truth should NEVER have to be defended by Laws. Like I have stated more than once, there is no difference between Christian Fundamentalists of centuries past, and Holocaust Fundamentalists of the modern day. Blind Faith trumps all. And there are people lurking, and waiting to pounce on anyone who dares question the Orthodoxy. And otherwise good, decent, intelligent people react with fear, outrage and disgust when someone dares question the Holy Word.

    Again, I and I alone actually made posts here pointing to the flaws in the Official Holocaust Narrative. Whatever Malagabay decides to do, or not do, with this issue from now on is entirely the choice of the fine gentleman who runs this website. But, the knee jerk reaction of ‘Thorsten’ is entirely predictable, and entirely Faith-based.

    No issue should be “above” or “beyond” objective scientific investigation and analysis. If an issue is “so obvious”, then any such investigation will surely only confirm, and possibly add a further dimension of knowledge to, what is already known? Only something that has no solid foundation will avoid any sort of objective analysis. And only someone who knows that an investigation will uncover a totally different version of the Truth to what is generally accepted, will withdraw themselves in whole from that issue.

    I

    • John Miller says:

      Whether or not the issue that has people posting here so hot actually occurred, I would like those people to answer how THIS could have occurred..

      http://www.holocausthandbooks.com/dl/SixMillionOpenGates.pdf

      We are once again faced with a “problem”. One that can either be addressed rationally and intelligently, or can be ignored, as people lash out and/or withdraw, thereby keeping their thoughts “pure”.

    • The problem is contradicting the religious – the religious cannot change their minds by definition, so there is no point rattling their cages; all you get is apoplectic mouth foaming.
      They only know what to recite, having never been educated to think.

      As for GH’s comment, in Germany even obliquely hinting at the taboo of taboos or unknowingly stumbling over the taboo is fraught with danger of the official kind.

      The problem is the separation of church and state has been closed and the State and Church have rejoined, though in a more modernised manner.

      There is strong archeological evidence for a holocaust terminating the Roman Period at 930 CE, and I suspect many still have not freed themselves from the Velkovskian species memory of that event, and thus perhaps confuse that memory with reality, especially if one is a permanent resident in The Matrix and tend to see only what they believe.

      And I would remind readers of what Rabbi Stephen Wise said of Marxism and Judaism. The game in play is Marxism and utopianism of both the physical and metaphysical kinds. Marxism comes in many flavours and emphasising one sect in preference to others distracts from reality. It’s monotheism we need to be refuting,

  11. melitamegalithic says:

    I hope this will not be how the year will end over here.

    The past 70 years have shown that humanity can prosper in peace time, and that what happened in the past should not be repeated anywhere, anytime, for no reason. While the frightening side of science is alarmed by global warming, the man-made ‘hell on earth’ of the historic past must be avoided.

    Archaeology (and history), in one respect, has delivered humanity a dis-service. That by making the annihilations of the past the result of warfare, as if warfare is a human necessity. Archaeology is very wrong there. The worst for humanity came as a natural ‘event’. The tell-tales of that are rare and not clear to perceive. Unlike that distant past, today’s societies are very highly leveraged (to use a term from a source also known for ‘messaging’ its figures), thus the need to turn resources to better perceive and weather future natural storms should be foremost. Rather than to self-destruct.

    • Fair says:

      Melita: Thank you for your patient response to my questions and for the informative links, which are no longer on the site, but I have copies in my email. I agree about the unnecessary warfare, the covering up of evidence from human settlements by archaeologists, and the falsification of history. Much harm has been done.

      But more light is now shining on these, and although the deliberate destruction of physical evidence of natural catastrophes and at human settlements continues, there is actually so much of it all around us that it cannot be hidden.
      Also, false documents often have a distinctive smell, even when they are photo-copied, don’t you think?

      All best wishes for the new year.

  12. There were 12 tribes but now, only two Judah and Kohan…. but why bother with facts?

    Man is still mostly animal. He lusts for blood … argument and dispute. So another war is inevitable!

  13. Tim,
    The irony is massive. Such a sad subject, but for an historian to “withdraw” from an objective and above all, receptive platform!

    Truth is always bound to hurt some, that is why lies are so prevalent.

    I also suspect DI was a provocateur.

    Cries of “antisemitism” are just designed to drive the weak to a safe place…. defined now as a walled in ghetto called Israel.

    George I of course was German, via Genoa and Georgia….. complex games require suitable history.

    Keep it up and damn the torpedoes!

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